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Friday, July 1, 2011

CONCACAF seeding: March vs. July

CONCACAF will use the March ranking to seed the teams. These are the pots:

Pot 1: USA, Mexico, Honduras
Pot 2: Jamaica, Costa Rica, Cuba
Pot 3: Panama, Canada, El Salvador, Grenada, Trinidad and Tobago, Haiti
Pot 4: Antigua and Barbuda, Guyana, Suriname, St. Kitts and Nevis, Guatemala, Dominica
Pot 5: Puerto Rico, Barbados, Curaçao, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Cayman Islands, Nicaragua
Pot 6: Bermuda + 5 winners from the first round.

Now, let's look at the July ranking (with three losses added for Mexico and Costa Rica for their Copa America matches).

Pot 1: Mexico, USA, Jamaica
Pot 2: Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica
Pot 3: El Salvador, Trinidad and Tobago, Cuba, Canada, Antigua and Barbuda, Suriname
Pot 4: Guyana, Guatemala, Haiti, Grenada, St. Kitts and Nevis, Dominica
Pot 5: Puerto Rico, Barbados, Curaçao, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, Cayman Islands, Nicaragua
Pot 6: Bermuda + 5 winners from the first round.

Jamaica, Panama, Antigua and Barbuda, Suriname would all climb one pot.
Honduras, Cuba, Haiti and Grenada would drop one pot.

8 comments:

  1. Edger, personally I feel the April rankings would be the best to use. The rankings after the Gold Cup can not and should not be used because of Guadeloupe. If TNT or Antigua and Barbuda competed then an even number of games for each competitor could be used. But thanks to the associate CONCACAF member one less game happened for U.S. compared to Mexico, one less game for Panama compared to Honduras, and only two games count for Canada. The July rankings can not be used because Costa Rica and Mexico got to compete and no one else from CONCACAF in Copa America. Uneven results happen if they do well or poorly. When the draw was actually made for the preliminary round the April rankings were the most current rankings published, yet they were not used. Hopefully, Cuba draws Panama in the CONCACAF semifinal round. A group of U.S., Costa Rica, Panama and El Salvador would such massively. The semifinal round should only be drawn after the 12 teams are known. Also, regional considerations need to happen so that at most three teams are from the continent with one team from the North zone and only two at most from Central America.

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  2. @ Dave

    The Guadeloupe argument is flawed. Guadeloupe already impacted on these rankings anyway, Cuba lost to Guadeloupe in the semis of the Caribbean Cup, and benefitted by going unpunished in the FIFA rankings, and then taking down Grenada in the 3rd place playoff. This was how they claimed that seeding.

    Also, Canada would have no competitive matches in the April rankings as they don't have to qualify for the Gold Cup. The Gold Cup decides who's best in the region and at the best possible time and should be factored in to the equation. I do support your Copa America argument though, so I believe June is the best ranking for CONCACAF to use. Guadeloupe can be a blessing or a curse. It was a blessing to Cuba, and would have been a curse for the Gold Cup teams they faced. It wouldn't have actually mattered though. US didn't need it, Panama made the 2nd pot where they belong, and Canada don't deserve to be in the 2nd pot. I also like the look of Jamaica as a top seed. Too bad we won't see any of that, especially getting Cuba out of that Pot B!

    We might see

    Mexico/Jamaica/Panama/El Salvador and Honduras/Cuba/Haiti/Grenada.

    Also, why should it be regionalised? Why should Canada get a free ride and avoid Mexico/US? Why can't we have a Honduras/Costa Rica/Panama/El Salvador group or a Mexico/Jamaica/Trinidad and Tobago/Haiti group or even a Panama/Guatemala/Nicaragua/Belize group in Round 2 if that's what comes out? if that's what comes out? No other confederation does regionalisation in World Cup qualifiers, and nor should they. You get who you get from the pots.

    Also, they might as well draw the semi final round before the 2nd round is drawn, and I think they will.

    I do wish they'd rerank the teams into two pots though instead of one of 6, and draw them after Round 2 was over to avoid the group of death/joke group scenario I laid out earlier though. But they're not going to, so they might as well draw the semi final round in the July draw too.

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  3. Try telling your argument to Jamaica. They got robbed last time. If they waited for the final 12 teams Jamaica would have gotten a top 6 seed. I disagree that Jamaica is necessarily that "good" they played in the weakest group. Honduras and Costa Rica were average to mediocre. I think this time it is Panama complaining about the period used. Honduras deserves a top 3 seed because they made it to South Africa. If the April rankings are used the proper six teams get the byes; also Grenada does not get penalized for having a horrible three games.

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  4. @ Dave

    Are you a different Dave, or the same one?

    We should be focusing on top seeds, not bottom ones. Top seeds go to the World Cup. And the Gold Cup should help decide the top seeds. Grenada won't be going to the World Cup. It's unfortunate, and I have a soft spot for Grenada and their against all odds Gold Cup qualifications, but Grenada should be sacrificed for the "greater good". And yes, Jamaica played in the weakest group. But so did Honduras, and they lost to Jamaica and couldn't beat a 9 man Guatemala, who were outplaying them even with 10, and still attacked with 9! Costa Rica also played them off the pitch in the QF. They were lucky to hold on for the penalty win. Yes, it's about results, not who was lucky to win, but I believe Honduras' results are still bad enough to allow Jamaica to leapfrog them. I'm not averse to having Honduras as the top seed, but I think Jamaica did enough to not argue if they were allowed to take it from them.

    Panama are easily the biggest and most undeserving victims of the March rankings though.

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  5. @dave:

    As I said elsewhere, Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana, Saint-Martin, and Sint Maarten are not associate members. They are full members of CONCACAF.

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  6. Um, no. This is a quote from CONCACAF;
    "Of the 40 members, five are associate members: Dutch territory Sint Maarten as well French Guyana and its fellow French overseas departments of Guadeloupe, Martinique and Saint-Martin. Their status permits them to play in CONCACAF events but not those of FIFA"

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  7. @Soccer-DB.info:

    Thanks for the info. I stand corrected, and retract the claim about "full members."

    I guess this is what I get for believing Wikipedia. (here and here)
    (Actually, the first time I saw those articles I did not believe them, but tried to check the info on concacaf.com. Obviously I did not look at the right page, because here is that quote on the History page.)

    Nonetheless, full member or associate member, they should still be fully entitled to enter confederational championships.

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  8. This July ranking is based on Mexico and Costa Rica losing all their games at the Copa America. So they wouldn't drop from their pots.

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